ICS Hop Problems...

[slecstyl]

Mga sirs, i'm i need your expert advice. The FPS of my ICS M4 remains the same at an average of 436 regardless of whether I use an SP130 or PDI 260 spring. My barrel length is 300mm. I tried using the hop-up system of another ICS together with a barrel length of 363mm but the FPS still remains at an average of 436. What could be wrong? I already tried changing the stock nozzle to a CA asn but the problem is still there. I tried sealing the cylinder and the hop system but there is still no change in the FPS. i'm deeply confused now and in desperate need of your help.

im no expert but i suggest you follow the post above and im sure it'll help a lot:icon_smile:

[gryphon]

Thank you for your reply sir slecstyl. Before I buy a new hop-up, however, and do some mods, I would like to ask if it is possible that the problem really is in the hop-up chamber kasi i tried two different ICS hop-ups na with two different barrel lengths and the problem is still there.... My FPS still remains at 436 average no matter what spring I use.

[v2s13]

Try using harder hop up rubbers. ICS stock hop up rubber are soft. When the results does not change, try to borrow a modified systema chamber for ICS.

[gryphon]

Thank you, sir v2s13. i'll try that now and post results tonight. thanks again. :icon_biggrin:

[gryphon]

Try using harder hop up rubbers. ICS stock hop up rubber are soft. When the results does not change, try to borrow a modified systema chamber for ICS.

I tried changing to a Guarder 70% hop rubber last night. It didn't work. I'll borrow and try using a systema chamber and post results here as soon as i'm done. :icon_smile:

[Private Pyle]

Thank you for your reply sir slecstyl. Before I buy a new hop-up, however, and do some mods, I would like to ask if it is possible that the problem really is in the hop-up chamber kasi i tried two different ICS hop-ups na with two different barrel lengths and the problem is still there.... My FPS still remains at 436 average no matter what spring I use.

What is the barrel's ID?

Based om experience on my ICS's M4 using all stock gear box(LOwer and Upper) except for the spring which is sp130 and stock hop chamber.

madbull chorono.
363/6.03 (madbull) = 470fps
200/stock cxp barrel (6.04?) = 400fps

Barrel length and ID affects the fps.

With that i would like to pose a question, given those baseline what would be the lenthg of a 6.02 barrel(deepfire) if i want to reach 440-450 fps?

[gryphon]

What is the barrel's ID?

Based om experience on my ICS's M4 using all stock gear box(LOwer and Upper) except for the spring which is sp130 and stock hop chamber.

madbull chorono.
363/6.03 (madbull) = 470fps
200/stock cxp barrel (6.04?) = 400fps

Barrel length and ID affects the fps.

With that i would like to pose a question, given those baseline what would be the lenthg of a 6.02 barrel(deepfire) if i want to reach 440-450 fps?

I tried using both 300 mm and 363 mm 6.04 barrels on two different stock ICS hop chambers. FPS stays the same using either an SP130 spring or a PDI 260 spring.

[chicane]

I tried using both 300 mm and 363 mm 6.04 barrels on two different stock ICS hop chambers. FPS stays the same using either an SP130 spring or a PDI 260 spring.

I believe you have a problem with your hop chamber to gearbox sealing. I believe even if you'll try a sp140 spring you'll still have the same fps reading. I had the same problem and finally fixed it using the so called "foam trick" as well as making sure that your inner barrel is properly aligned/sealed. My m4 still shoots at 510 to 520fps using 370mm x 6.04 tb + guarder sp130 spring, and this setup is already about 6 months old.

[v2s13]

I believe you have a problem with your hop chamber to gearbox sealing. I believe even if you'll try a sp140 spring you'll still have the same fps reading. I had the same problem and finally fixed it using the so called "foam trick" as well as making sure that your inner barrel is properly aligned/sealed. My m4 still shoots at 510 to 520fps using 370mm x 6.04 tb + guarder sp130 spring, and this setup is already about 6 months old.


Nice! I also use the foam trick. Ganda nang compression mo bro. Sa akin normal lang nman, techpro 190+363mm 6.03tb nasa 480-490fps.

[chicane]

Nice! I also use the foam trick. Ganda nang compression mo bro. Sa akin normal lang nman, techpro 190+363mm 6.03tb nasa 480-490fps.

Hehe lakas ah, I'm sure if you use a longer barrel you'll hit 510fps ++ easily. I have learned about the foam trick in this very thread a few months ago po, I believe tayo tayo din yung nag uusap nun lol! This thread is really helpful for ICS m4 owners kaya thanks talaga sa mga nagturo nun about the trick :) sorry dko na maalala kase ung exact persons...

btw update ko lang dun sa foam trick:

I used a "banana peel" sandals as my foam source, and so far ok na ok pa din po ung pagka seal nya. If I'm not mistaken the said foam is about 5 to 7 months old nang naka ipit dun sa may hop hehehe.

[JM360]

wow, it's been a while since i posted in this thread .. turns out it still maintains its place as a first page thread .. another surprise is that the pictures i posted for the foam trick still shows up!


-----Added 27 Jul 2009 at 09:21:18------
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-----Please consolidate all your messages into one post. Use the EDIT feature.


I tried changing to a Guarder 70% hop rubber last night. It didn't work. I'll borrow and try using a systema chamber and post results here as soon as i'm done. :icon_smile:

on the contrary .. I would suggest a softer hop rubber such as systema ..


-----Added 27 Jul 2009 at 09:30:08------
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sir vs13, i tried shaving my jg 1 pc hop chamber to fit my ics m4, after shaving it fitted and bbs were loading. the problem now is the ASN, it seems to long, the bbs wont come out of the barrel, tumama sa ASN even fully retracted na yung ASN..my upper gearbox set up is stock ics cylinder, ca nozzle and stock ics tappet plate...can you help me sove this problem sir..thanks

I'm sorry to say this but chances are the problem is not in your ASN .. The problem is in the hopup chamber. For some reason, the swap in chambers works best when using systema chambers due to the consistent dimensions. I've tried both CA and G&P chambers for the mod and both gave ASN clearance problems.

So if you want to make sure, borrow a systema assembly and try it out with a fresh ASN. My hopes aren't too optimistic with the JG chamber and shaved ASN that you have now. You might not be able to use those anymore... or for the ICS anyway...

[chicane]

wow, it's been a while since i posted in this thread .. turns out it still maintains its place as a first page thread .. another surprise is that the pictures i posted for the foam trick still shows up!


-----Added 27 Jul 2009 at 09:21:18------
-----Auto merged by FAS' System for Double Posting/ Bumping within 24hrs.
-----Please consolidate all your messages into one post. Use the EDIT feature.




on the contrary .. I would suggest a softer hop rubber such as systema ..


-----Added 27 Jul 2009 at 09:30:08------
-----Auto merged by FAS' System for Double Posting/ Bumping within 24hrs.
-----Please consolidate all your messages into one post. Use the EDIT feature.




I'm sorry to say this but chances are the problem is not in your ASN .. The problem is in the hopup chamber. For some reason, the swap in chambers works best when using systema chambers due to the consistent dimensions. I've tried both CA and G&P chambers for the mod and both gave ASN clearance problems.

So if you want to make sure, borrow a systema assembly and try it out with a fresh ASN. My hopes aren't too optimistic with the JG chamber and shaved ASN that you have now. You might not be able to use those anymore... or for the ICS anyway...


Hahaha! Oonga po pala it's sir JM who posted the "foam trick" a couple of months back!!!! Thanks sir!!!

[slayermoonlight]

Mga fellow ICS users. I'm planning to use a MAgpul 120rd PMAG for my CXP. Compatible ba ito (without doing any mods?).

I still encounter horrendous fps inconsistencies (highest 450 fps lowest 280 fps!!! on a PDI 190% spring). dalawang gunsmith na ang sumuko at umamin na di nila kaya ito (I paid the gunsmithing fee anyway for the effort). kung may mga tools lang ako...Anyway, do you think the "foam trick" will solve this even in the stock ICS hop chamber?

And by the way, I just want to share my observation. Nung binili ko yung CXP, OTB 395-400 fps sya consistent. For 3 games consistent sya. Nag-arise lang yung problem nung binuksan na gearbox. Kaya ayan nagkanda l*eche-L*eche na. I think its not innate in ICS M4 variants to have that hop problems. I duuno it remains a mystery to me until now. Medyo regretful din ako (not for buying an ICS in fact I'm proud. Excellent metal body, excellent stock motor, turbo 3k, gwapo gun etc...) but for having it gunsmithed by someone who is not knowledgeable with an ICS. Sana di ko nalang din binuksan.

[Black Bear]

Mga fellow ICS users. I'm planning to use a MAgpul 120rd PMAG for my CXP. Compatible ba ito (without doing any mods?).

I still encounter horrendous fps inconsistencies (highest 450 fps lowest 280 fps!!! on a PDI 190% spring). dalawang gunsmith na ang sumuko at umamin na di nila kaya ito (I paid the gunsmithing fee anyway for the effort). kung may mga tools lang ako...Anyway, do you think the "foam trick" will solve this even in the stock ICS hop chamber?

And by the way, I just want to share my observation. Nung binili ko yung CXP, OTB 395-400 fps sya consistent. For 3 games consistent sya. Nag-arise lang yung problem nung binuksan na gearbox. Kaya ayan nagkanda l*eche-L*eche na. I think its not innate in ICS M4 variants to have that hop problems. I duuno it remains a mystery to me until now. Medyo regretful din ako (not for buying an ICS in fact I'm proud. Excellent metal body, excellent stock motor, turbo 3k, gwapo gun etc...) but for having it gunsmithed by someone who is not knowledgeable with an ICS. Sana di ko nalang din binuksan.

Sir ano po location nyo? Have you heard of TOY SOLDIERS shop? Dun namin pinagawa ng utol ko mga ICS nya and we are very happy with the work and results.... Look for sir Vince sya ang gunsmith and owner of the place kaya sure the work.... Toy Soldier is located at sunshine arcade in quezon ave near Klowns.

[JM360]

I tried using both 300 mm and 363 mm 6.04 barrels on two different stock ICS hop chambers. FPS stays the same using either an SP130 spring or a PDI 260 spring.

a 300mm barrel versus a 363mm will have very little difference in terms of fps output. In fact I usually suggest guns with 300mm barrels and 363mm next. I never suggest anything longer than 363mm (like m14's etc) ... Why? I shall repeat what I have been posting in these forums for a long time...

It is more accurate and simple to use. Longer barrels doesnt mean jack when it comes to airsoft and accuracy, in fact, it can actually make it less accurate.

[krueger]

@slayermoonlight:

I don't usually post here but somehow, i felt the need to post some info on working on your ics gun. I've been playing airsoft for a few years now, and i have owned more than my fair share of aeg's. However, when time came to let go of several aeg's, i intentionally chose to save my two ics rifles, one for field, and another for cqb. Why? i'm extremely happy with it and its never let me down for the last three years that i've been using it as my primaries.

Anyways, to get the ball rolling.. the reason for your muzzle velocity inconsistencies may be one of two things or both.. your hop chamber and your piston head o ring.

First, your piston head: If you still have that techpro piston head on your ics, it has the opaque colored oring. It may not be expanding properly, therefore not creating a proper seal. Try to get a different o ring and test it again. If you don't have an extra o ring, try to expand your o ring with your hands, just don't exert too much effort because you might pull it apart. When you do this, you'll immediately notice a difference. Try these things first before getting a new piston head.

Ok, next is your hop chamber. This one is definitely a lot more difficult but we've found fixes for it without changing your hop chamber.

If you read back on this thread, you'll see the observations are correct, there is a visible misalignment in the hop chamber resulting in an improper seal. The way we corrected it is to use silicone sealant (pioneer mighty seal, because it only hardens to rubber consistency) and apply it to the barrel, then put on the hop rubber; and then.. apply silicone sealant on the outside of the hop rubber. Here's the well kept secret: Do you notice the part where your bb enters the hop rubber? It has a cylindrical lip, correct? Put silicone sealant around that lip and insert the assembled barrel and hop rubber carefully into the hop chamber without disturbing the sealant you put around the lip. Once that hardens, it creates a rubber seal which does not let air through the misalignment but still allows the bb to go through without impeding it.

Try it you might like it. Hope this helps!

[neib_3]

I bought an ICS (sportsline stubby killer) plastic version.

have upgrade my riffle with the ff:
- PDI 190 spring
- Guarder spring guide
- ASN (color blue, but i dnt know the brand) :icon_smile:
- TB, deepfire 300mm,6.02
- Lipoly battery, 11.1v 1800mAH

other than the above mentioned upgrades, everything are stock.

after the upgrade it gives me 410fps @ 20-22 rof.

Mga ICS experts, can you share any suggestions on what to do with my riffle to increase more its FPS. :icon_cool:

TIA

[v2s13]

@neib_3: Im no expert on ICS but change ur stock o-ring to viton 116 oring. As krueger said that the ics stock oring causes airleaks and for me the stock ICS oring really sucks big time. I have 4 ICS aegs right now and one of them is a ICS stubby. It clocks 425 on a PDI 170% spring but i put 6.5mm sorbo pad in the cylinderhead, now it only clocks maximum of 405fps. To avoid future headaches though, try changing to systema hop up chamber. One time I my aeg drops 480fps to 420fps coz i did not notice the small crack in the ICS chamber. In the long run it will crack due to vibrations the gearbox's pounding and the sad thing is you may not notice it when it cracks in the inside and causing leaks.

[neib_3]

@v2s13

Thanks for the quick riply sir! so the problem with ICS is the Hop-up chamber which is prone to air leaks?

do u have a YM sir?


-----Added 10 Aug 2009 at 08:43:32------
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mga ICS experts, mga sirs...

any other suggestions on how to increase my FPS using stock gears and motor.

I bought an ICS (sportsline stubby killer) plastic version.

have upgraded my riffle with the ff:
- PDI 190 spring
- Guarder spring guide
- ASN (color blue, but i dnt know the brand)
- TB, deepfire 300mm,6.02
- Lipoly battery, 11.1v 1800mAH

after the upgrade it gives me 410fps @ 20-22 rof.

[JM360]

I bought an ICS (sportsline stubby killer) plastic version.

have upgrade my riffle with the ff:
- PDI 190 spring
- Guarder spring guide
- ASN (color blue, but i dnt know the brand) :icon_smile:
- TB, deepfire 300mm,6.02
- Lipoly battery, 11.1v 1800mAH

other than the above mentioned upgrades, everything are stock.

after the upgrade it gives me 410fps @ 20-22 rof.

Mga ICS experts, can you share any suggestions on what to do with my riffle to increase more its FPS. :icon_cool:

TIA

First try to change your piston head. ICS piston heads are not ported thus the piston does not move back pretty well. You will need to change the piston body as well.

Ultimately, the stock hop chamber will be your problem so it would be better to save up on a single piece hop chamber. Meantime you can try the foam mod posted a few pages back alongside your stock hop chamber

[Avalon]

Mga sirs, meron pa ba kayo ma recommend na gunsmith within makati area na nag convert ng hop assembly to CA or Systema?

[neib_3]

First try to change your piston head. ICS piston heads are not ported thus the piston does not move back pretty well. You will need to change the piston body as well.

Ultimately, the stock hop chamber will be your problem so it would be better to save up on a single piece hop chamber. Meantime you can try the foam mod posted a few pages back alongside your stock hop chamber

@JM360

Thanks for the rilpy sir!

have already check the pics about the foam trick, but im still confuse which part of the stock hop chamber the foam will be mounted. :icon_biggrin:
im really new with this stuff sir.

pls help sir!

[viscano]

Good day sirs,

I have scanned the entire thread and its alot take in. I was wondering if I could some help on my ICS M4 Pistol. I am currently using the stock hopup chamber and I change my ASN to a metal one.

I tested it out and the chrono numbers are really weird. It mostly clocks at 200's and then a couple goes 300's and then back to 200's. Once in a blue moon it goes to about 420.

I am hoping that someone can help out on this problem.

Thanks.

Newbie

[neib_3]

Mga ICS masterS!

yun pong spring sa may labas ng stock hop-up chamber, any alternative nun kasi na wala yung spring ko eh.

somebody says na, meron daw sa mga ballpen? may kuha ako sa ballpen pero masyadong malaki.
anybody can help where can i find a replacement spring for that..

TIA

[krueger]

@viscano: your metal asn is causing the massive amounts of air leaks in your system, resulting in your dismal fps.

Try to go back to the stock asn and seal your hop chamber as instructed in the top of this page and check the results.

Guys, with the ics, upgrade parts need to be carefully selected. Its not a matter of plug and play like other aegs. Like i previously said, ics has a world of its own when it comes to parts and sometimes even the tried and tested parts don't necessarily work in the ics.

To list it down:

Ics stock hop bucking, hop chamber and loading nozzle are fine just the way it is. Just seal it properly and watch the results.

If you're itching to replace one of them, remember this: you can't replace one without having a problem with the other.

Hope this helps.