what do you think about GMA pardons Erap!

[Jonathan Layson]

Arroyo pardons Erap

Malacañang on Thursday announced that President Arroyo has decided to hand down an executive clemency to former president Joseph Estrada.

Mrs. Arroyo’s decision came after former president Fidel Ramos advised her not to be “hasty” with the request for full pardon.

"In view hereof and pursuant to the authority conferred upon me by the Constitution, I hereby grant executive clemency to Joseph Ejercito Estrada convicted by the Sandiganbayan of plunder and imposed a penalty of reclusion perpetua," Press Secretary Ignacio Bunye said as he read the President's signed order.

(Read full text of the announcement here.)

The letter further stated that Estrada's civil and political rights will be restored.

The order, however, said, "The forfeitures imposed by the Sandiganbayan remain in force and in full including all writs and processes issued by the Sandiganbayan in pursuant hereof except for the bank accounts he owned before his tenure as president."

Rumors have been circulating that the former president may be granted pardon and released within the week from his rest house in Tanay, Rizal.

The anti-graft court Sandiganbayan's Special Division convicted Estrada for plunder charges on September 12. He was sentenced to life imprisonment.

The source you will find it under
www.abs-cbnnews.com/topofthehour.aspx?StoryId=97058

[Firewalker]

avian species of similar plummage

[Jdc]

not a good example

[pitbulero]

it only means one thing kase malapit naring kasuhan si gma at ang kanyang mga alagad and pag napatalsik siya at iba ang maupo eh hihingi din siya ng pardon "ako nga nakayanan kong mag patawad sana patawarin din ako" :D

[Jonathan Layson]

what do you think was is a good move from GMA to give a pardon to Erap???

[blue_helmet™]

tama na yun...erap already wasted his 6yrs in prison...he deserves the pardon...and he's already 70+y/o...

[tungstent3]

If Erap deserves to be pardoned after stealing tons of money from folks like you and me, does this mean that other "criminals" like Trillanes ought to be pardoned as well?

Thinking aloud lang :D

[Jdc]

Dapat pantay ang pag hatol ng batas, mahirap, mayaman o makapangyarihan. Hindi yata ito ang nangyari.

[blue_helmet™]

sabi ko na nga ba may magrereact sa comment ko e...hahaha...

@tungstent3

anyways, just to answer your feedback...Yes, trillanes is a lot more deserving to be pardoned..why?..because he just fought for what he think is right..

..back to erap...erap was legitimately elected as the president of the republic of the philippines...meaning, majority of the population of the philippines elected him right?...we all know erap is an action star and a drop-out of ateneo...so why elect him?....iboboto-boto ninyo tapos magrereklamo kayo pag nagkamali...filipino is so stupid and so ignorant when it comes to politics (especially elections)...ngyn, napalaya siya after 6 years and stealing billions...does he deserve pardon from our dear president?...answer is yes..why?...1st, he already passed trial (unlike the present president who evades proper trial through desperate act of evasion)...2nd, he served his time in jail for six years...you think this is not enough?..what about our present president who is stealing tons of cash and stole the elections (she deliberately cheated...and still evaded trial)...did she serve jail time?...3rd and last, Erap is elected president...we reap what we sow...

@Jdc

Justice is invisible here in the philippines whether we accept it of not...its there but we couldnt really see it...as for erap being granted of pardon by our present president...well, lets just say our present president has plans and intentions we do not know that she must do for her good..kung ano man yun, wag na nating alamin..and as long as those maniacs doesn't mingle with my peacful life...i dont ****!n care about them...i just laugh at whats happening here in our country...haha...SANA IBENTA NA LANG ANG PILIPINAS SA U.S. PARA SILA NA LANG ANG MAG-LEAD...if im president...i'd sell this stupid country, with no hesitation, to the united states for $1.00....because FOR ME (opinion po ha...), thats our sh!t country is worth...

[Jonathan Layson]

qestions to all can we trust our philippine government?

[blue_helmet™]

trust?

our government?

di magmmix yan...parang bagoong at milkshake...hehehe:D

[Jdc]

Hi Blue Helmet,

Peace tayo. Just my opinion here.

Point 1: Erap was sentenced in court after a guilty verdict. If we trust that the prosecution did its job and that the court did not err in sentencing him according to the law, then the sentence should have been followed. Even if he is given consideration for time served, I think a token time (several months if not years) spent in the slammer after the sentencing would have sent the correct message to politicians and the public in general that there is a price to pay for stealing public funds.

Point 2: The terms of the pardon are not too clear. From what I've been told by a lawyer friend, even the recovery of ill gotten wealth is subject to interpretation and execution by our current leadership (this looks like a convenient arrangement for erap and the current president). I felt that at least any ill gotten wealth must be returned completely before any release from prison is done.

Point 3: Regarding GMA, I think she should face the consequences of her actions as president. That includes facing investigations by congress or a duly appointed independent body for the allegations of cheating in the elections, bribery, etc. If the investigations lead to findings of criminal conduct, she should be impeached then face prosecution. That is the law, right? We just have to follow it.

My interpretation of the whole event is that the president is becoming desperate due to the threat of the opposition. Not that I like the opposition any better, I don't. In her desperation she is reaching out to people whom she can make into a future ally. Erap, who was facing a long sentence can be horse traded with. Erap gets a pardon, in exchange he stops bankrolling the opposition from taking her down.

As you see, there are no good guys in this deal. You and me and the rest of the country are losers.

Despite all the negative things happening in the country, this is our country. I won't sell it out, specially to the US. Heck, if the US ever find oil under our soil, they wont hesitate to bomb us like they did Iraq. They will call that a liberation :)

By the way, your idea to sell us to the US is a bit late. Judging by what is happening, GMA is already selling us to China ;)

[Jonathan Layson]

JDC what do you think is GMA a bad president?

[Jdc]

JDC what do you think is GMA a bad president?

As I said, she should be investigated.

There are a lot of allegations going around. I won't pretend to know the facts, but an investigation should answer that. If the investigation finds her innocent, then all is well. The way things are however, there is the question of who can we trust to pursue an honest and fair investigation (I question the opposition's motives), but that is a different problem.

We can't be blind and pretend we did not hear about the NBN deal, Hello Garci tape or the Gov. Panlillo bribe. Those are serious allegations that deserve serious and credible investigations.

Just my thoughts.

[blue_helmet™]

i agree to all of your arguments jdc...

about the given pardon...GMA has intentions and/or plans in mind in which we do not know...the pardon given to erap is so mysterious...no one really knows why...whatever her intention/s is/are..its for us to face in the not-so-distant future..

whatever she has done wrong...she'll pay for that...God has ways...

GMA a bad president?...

i have no right to judge a person...No one has rights to judge other people...

[vtech3]

i like this topic ... makikisali lang mga chief ...

let's set things in place ..

one ... the pardon will never be granted if is wasnt REQUESTED .. on october 22, estrada's lawyers wrote and submitted the letter of request for PARDON to the persident ...

two ... the president, the only person with the constitutional right to grant the pardon did so on october 26 .. coz' erap was over 70 years old, has sereved time in detention (7 years) and an elected official on the highest level.. all are provided for by the constitution.. and with a sole assesment and prerogative of the president.

three ... pardon will never be granted if your case is still in court. meaning, if your case is not yet final and executory, there are no issues on pardon to be discussed. erap accepted the verdict of the sandigan bayan. they withdrew all their appeals and waived all their rights to appeal further in any courts. it's guilty and done with, and pardon was requested and granted .. ;)

trillanes ? he will have to wait for a final and executory verdict first.


whatever happened in the back doors of the request and pardon, well, its speculative. and this is where media comes in .. a lot of haka-haka and kuru-kuro that will just confuse a lot of people in the process ...

in my opinion, if see this as (i hope) a starting point of reconciliation. i'm sure there will never be such, but at least reduce the wide gap that was created by edsa dos.

nice day chief !!

[hitnrun]

Hi Blue Helmet,

Peace tayo. Just my opinion here.

Point 1: Erap was sentenced in court after a guilty verdict. If we trust that the prosecution did its job and that the court did not err in sentencing him according to the law, then the sentence should have been followed. Even if he is given consideration for time served, I think a token time (several months if not years) spent in the slammer after the sentencing would have sent the correct message to politicians and the public in general that there is a price to pay for stealing public funds.

Point 2: The terms of the pardon are not too clear. From what I've been told by a lawyer friend, even the recovery of ill gotten wealth is subject to interpretation and execution by our current leadership (this looks like a convenient arrangement for erap and the current president). I felt that at least any ill gotten wealth must be returned completely before any release from prison is done.

Point 3: Regarding GMA, I think she should face the consequences of her actions as president. That includes facing investigations by congress or a duly appointed independent body for the allegations of cheating in the elections, bribery, etc. If the investigations lead to findings of criminal conduct, she should be impeached then face prosecution. That is the law, right? We just have to follow it.

My interpretation of the whole event is that the president is becoming desperate due to the threat of the opposition. Not that I like the opposition any better, I don't. In her desperation she is reaching out to people whom she can make into a future ally. Erap, who was facing a long sentence can be horse traded with. Erap gets a pardon, in exchange he stops bankrolling the opposition from taking her down.

As you see, there are no good guys in this deal. You and me and the rest of the country are losers.

Despite all the negative things happening in the country, this is our country. I won't sell it out, specially to the US. Heck, if the US ever find oil under our soil, they wont hesitate to bomb us like they did Iraq. They will call that a liberation :)

By the way, your idea to sell us to the US is a bit late. Judging by what is happening, GMA is already selling us to China ;)

I think you stated it very well.

There is no question about the constitutionality of the pardon. All legal requirements have been met. What is quite hard to accept is how easily it came without explanation or clarity of the conditions. So many questions are raised. Why so soon? What will the people gain from the pardon? How and what can we recover of the ill-gotten wealth? He was in fact found guilty without reasonable doubt but he still claims innocence and is now scot-free. Was it all an exercise in futility? What message does it send us? What message does it send our politicians?

I think that if she was to act more statesmanly, she ought to have given it more consideration. But then again, she acted just as one would expect of her.

[Sigma6]

JDC what do you think is GMA a bad president?

Ewan ko lang bat parang bigla ko natawa sa tanung na to :D

[kratosx9]

SANA IBENTA NA LANG ANG PILIPINAS SA U.S. PARA SILA NA LANG ANG MAG-LEAD...if im president...i'd sell this stupid country, with no hesitation, to the united states for $1.00....because FOR ME (opinion po ha...), thats our sh!t country is worth...

Sir ok yun, automatic US citizen tayo niyan ..... (sorry I just have to comment hahahahhaa, the current situation of our country really gets on everyones nerves). Isa lang na siguro ang hope ng philippines..... "I believe the children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way, show them all the beauty they possess inside........ wait.....who's teaching them???????

[Sigma6]

" Originally Posted by blue_helmet
SANA IBENTA NA LANG ANG PILIPINAS SA U.S. PARA SILA NA LANG ANG MAG-LEAD...if im president...i'd sell this stupid country, with no hesitation, to the united states for $1.00....because FOR ME (opinion po ha...), thats our sh!t country is worth..."

I hate to think this is our Country's worth..... I say OUR LEADERS ARE the 1 cent and still too expensive to be their worth.

Sa ngayun nga sa CHINA pa ata tayo binebenta ng mokong na nasa gobyerno e.

[Rene Limson]

Let's get back to the topic - "pardon" before the thread is moved to the FS ads :D

Any idea why the age "70" is used as a basis for pardon? Seventy isn't really that old yet, maybe, it should be 80 or 70 but one isn't capable anymore of living by himself, e.g., incapacitated.

Full, absolute pardon, e.g., back to society? I see at least two potential unfriendly factors here:the young people may look upon him, i.e., a bad deed and later got away with it :eek:; not too welcomed by society:o:(:mad: maybe more unfriendly scenarios
Maybe, it would be 'better' if the pardon means being isolated in an island-community, possibly re-united with the family. :rolleyes:

[dieppe]

Let's get back to the topic - "pardon" before the thread is moved to the FS ads :D

Any idea why the age "70" is used as a basis for pardon? Seventy isn't really that old yet, maybe, it should be 80 or 70 but one isn't capable anymore of living by himself, e.g., incapacitated.

Full, absolute pardon, e.g., back to society? I see at least two potential unfriendly factors here:the young people may look upon him, i.e., a bad deed and later got away with it :eek:; not too welcomed by society:o:(:mad: maybe more unfriendly scenarios
Maybe, it would be 'better' if the pardon means being isolated in an island-community, possibly re-united with the family. :rolleyes:

D7K,

My best guess would be that when the laws were first crafted the average life span was much lower than what it is today ( I would surmise 60 or below ). Thus the thinking is that when the person reaches the age of 70 he would be too old and feeble to do any crime. It would be a humanitarian act on the part of the governent as well.

Of course the reality today is different. Many people who are over the age of 70 are still vibrant and still have the will and resources to plunder the economy and cause mischief.

[Recon]

Ewan ko lang bat parang bigla ko natawa sa tanung na to :D

hehehe kailangan p bang itanong yan. come on guys, everyone know how this GMA administration sucks.

[Zatoichi]

....simple.....:D... i don't...hehehe